E. Jean Carroll of Elle MagazineThere
is no escaping E. Jean Carroll. The longtime journalist and doyenne of
relationship advice, who's been called "institutionally incapable of
being uninteresting," is, at 69, still ready to explain precisely what
is wrong with your life, your attitude toward marriage, and your shoes.
And given that she has been dispensing her singular guidance to Elle readers since 1993,
her opinion is not one to dismiss lightly. To say we interviewed her
would be pretense - she spoke, we listened, and at the end, we walked
away with a sense of wonder.
So tell us: what's the secret to a fantastic date?
Oh Christ, the secret of dating is not the person you're dating, it's
the EXPERIENCE - any two idiots can go out to a bar and have wine. But
if you're WALKING somewhere or DOING something or going on a hunt or
quest, then it gets interesting. So go do something! As long as it's not
dinner. NEVER dinner. I never ever in the "Ask E. Jean" column advise
people to go out to dinner on a first date - it's death, death, death.
Dinner is DEATH. DO NOT go to dinner on a first date. Shall I say it
again? I'll say it again.
Plus: Is Lying to Your Spouse a Good Thing?
No dinner - noted. So what, specifically, SHOULD you do?
No dinner - noted. So what, specifically, SHOULD you do?
Do anything. Anything but dinner. Go to a dog show, go on a scavenger
hunt. Go on a quest to find absinthe and then drink it. Do not do
dinner. Plus it's always better to start a date a little hungry because
it makes you a little crazy. And you want to be a little crazy on dates!
You want to have an experience! Make it unique!
Plus:
Plus:
And be sure to walk around - women look so much more beautiful when
they're walking. ALWAYS wear a dress, or at least a skirt, for that
exact reason. I walked across New Guinea in 1988 for a Playboy piece. [Ed. note: no really, she did.]
That was one hell of a trek. I was looking to talk to real men, who
hadn't ever heard of the "sensitive man" nonsense. When I arrived at the
largest village I found (and when I say "largest" I mean "7 or 8 huts")
we were REALLY going back into the primordial times. The SINGLE BIGGEST
thing people wanted to see when they saw this white woman in their
village was to see immediately whether I was a woman or a man. I was
traveling with a male guide, but the people had to be able to see
instantaneously that I was a woman. So I wore a dress through the entire
hike. And I mean both genders wanted to know. Men and women are born
with that yearning to see a woman dressed in a dress, and a man in a
great suit. Or a penis gourd, if you're from New Guinea.
So never pants? A well-fitted pair of jeans can make your legs (and butt) look pretty great.
NO. No pants. It's not even about showing the body off. It's about
wearing something that can be ripped off, something that moves. If a
woman wears a skirt, it presents something a guy instinctively wants to
lift. A man can't lift pants.
Really?
Don't believe me? I will BET you. Do an experiment. In the HowAboutWe
office, bring a doll to work. Hand it to people - let them hold it. And
then watch how many will lift her dress immediately. I can tell you how
many: all of them. I have a doll in my office, named Tony Sue. I hand
her to everyone who comes in. Every one of them lifts the dress. Men,
women, both. They want to see what she has on underneath.
So women, wear a dress. Wear pants on the second date. I don't care
about the second date - if there's anything between you, it wont matter
what you wear. SO much rides on that first impression. Oh My God.
You rarely hear advice like this
anymore. Everyone wants to speak to the modern woman, who's rising the
ranks and dominating the workforce and valiantly trying to "have it
all."
Well the modern woman has a lot of advantages. She's sexy and she can
look 25 when she's 40 and she can take terrific care of herself. Men are
the ones who have it tough. Men in New York are the new women. Women in
New York chase the men, It's unfortunate.'
So you don't think anyone should ever chase a guy?
It depends on the situation. Let's leave that decision to the women -
they can decide. They know their talents. But the guys have it rough.
Men, I tell you, they have it rough these days.
Do they? What about all the classic
stats that show the contrary - the list of Fortune 500 CEOS where only
19 are women, that sort of thing?
Those aren't the men I'm talking about. The CEOs are the guys who have
been competitive and successful. I'm talking about the young twenties
and thirties guys - boy. They're having to figure out when to have kids
and settle down and whether they have to do housework and how much to
do. Men are looking for their PURPOSE. Without purpose, we're unhappy
people. Men want to carve the turkey and lift heavy things and take care
of you - I LOVE a guy like that. I love a masculine man. When a man
comes along and I'm stuck in a snowbank and he pushes me out, I am
filled with happiness at the glory of men. A woman isn't going to do
that for me.
Plus: Can Any of Us Actually Afford to 'Lean In?'
Plus: Can Any of Us Actually Afford to 'Lean In?'
Let's turn to your column in Elle. The questions you answer are often from women suffering from a hefty dose of self-delusion. How do you break it gently to someone when the problem is them?
I really think that all this boils down to taking different actions.
I'm not big on introspection. I'm not a fan of overthinking. Take
action. You're right about the woman who spends her twenties
accomplishing - that's pretty fabulous. Being single in New York or L.A.
or Denver or Philly, it's the best - the world is filled with
possibilities. And then around 34 or 35, you think, "Wow, maybe I
shouldn't have spent all that time working and buying those shoes."
That's when you simply take a different action. It's not about changing
your personality. Or wallowing.
Is dating really a different world now, with technology and shifts in gender dynamics and the new economy?
No, it's not. It's no different. It's still how beautiful the girl is,
and how charming and funny the guy is, and it's Mother Nature ordering
you around. It's about feeling that first click with someone. You know
what I'm talking about - have you ever had that click?
Yes. With my husband.
What happened?
We met at a party.
And? What happened the first time you saw him?
I thought he was the handsomest man I'd ever seen.
YES. THAT. That's Mother Nature. That's what happens. Your voice
changes when you click like that. Your lips get redder. Your eyes start
to sparkle, which they literally never did before. Your posture changes.
And HE changes too! His voice changes. His gestures and mannerisms.
Mother Nature closes down portions of your brain. You stop thinking. She
wants that executive part of your brain out of it. She just wants your
emotional brain to take over. That's NOT GONNA CHANGE. That's brilliant
to feel that exhilaration. What is better? NOTHING!
Plus: Women Are Apparently Most Seductive at the Age Of…
I've felt the click, and I ran off and married the guy. It was GREAT. Unfortunately we ended up fighting like dogs and cats. We met at Elaine's back in the day. We were at dinner, we both pushed our chairs back at the same time and looked at each other, and that was it. He asked for my number, and…
I've felt the click, and I ran off and married the guy. It was GREAT. Unfortunately we ended up fighting like dogs and cats. We met at Elaine's back in the day. We were at dinner, we both pushed our chairs back at the same time and looked at each other, and that was it. He asked for my number, and…
Are you still together?
I've been married a couple of times - the normal amount. The first
time lasted 13 years, we lived in a ranch in Montana. He was a logger
and a fly fisherman. Then I married an anchorman - that marriage was 3
years. The fights were MAGNIFICENT. I would want to write in our house,
and he would want to see me, so I would lock the door to my room
. And he
RIPPED down the door and picked me up and carried me into the living
room and made love to me. He turned the door into matchsticks. I mean,
splinters!
So is that your advice for keeping things interesting once you've settled down?
Yes. Keep a trim figure so guys can pick you up and carry you onto the
lawn and ravage you. Make sure the guy can carry you. Or make sure you
can carry the guy. Either way, someone should be carried out on the lawn
and ravaged.
Fair enough. What about advice for singles looking for love?
You have to get offline. I'll say it again. You HAVE GOT TO GET OFFLINE. YOU HAVE TO GET OFF LINE.
And once you're offline?
Do anything but dinner.
